When we played for the "upper classes," there are no aristocrats in the US, she was Miss Beverly Spaulding. When we played in the joints, she was Bunny Starr. The food was better at the uppers, the audience was better in the joints. For the uppers we were expected to play the "hits," in the joints it was mostly originals, with titles like: Mankind I Love You, But Sometimes You Act So Strange. Big Business Sitting in the Wings, oh mister, you got a fine shoe shine, but you want so much sugar for just one dime. (the record company execs that came around weren't so sure that that those would be hits.) "Can't you do something like Ricki Lee Jones?" Instead we'd play Brilliant Corners: Alto, Bass, and Drums.
You summed it up beautifully, Su. The difference between those that grow up in the responsibility of their privilege, and those that assume it. The old money folks often work to understate their circumstances, favoring no ostentation. The new money folks have gaudy stone lions at the entrance to their tasteless mansions. It's a matter of taste. One is born to it. The other pretends to it. And never the twain shall meet.
Alki, responsibility of their priviledge? My friend you are showing our age. That once imagined benevolence is clearly being proven to be imagined. Regardless of place in class structure the defining factor is humanity, commitment to decency and fairness to others. I will claim an up close and personal observation as having been the chef for and to many people and families of stature. Money always makes a difference but not necessarily the difference.
You are, of course, accurate in what you write, Justin. Benevolence doesn't always accompany fortune. I'm thinking more of the old Republican guard who actually cared about people. I'm told the Rockefellers did a lot for the commoners in philanthropy and governance. Certainly not today's MAGA dickheads. Whereas a lot of self-made new money has an attitude of "Go get your own. I worked hard for this money, you get nothing." Understandable, if not very compassionate. One very wealthy Trumper I knew along the way said something to the effect of, "you liberal artists... if you ever have money you'll see how fast you become a Republican." To which I replied, Abe Lincoln was a Republican. Ultimately, it's dangerous to speak in absolutes. Generous caring people exist everywhere, as do tacky, stingy wienies.
Alki, I hate to say it but I’ve got to say it: Nelson Rockefeller, Attica , the slaughter. Archie Shepp…. Attica Blues. The father ie Standard Oil, David, phony conservation for tax right offs, six heart transplants to live to 90, afraid of the hereafter perhaps. Robber Barons all. Rockefeller Center an edifice for the little people to honor them, like Ayn Rand’s hero’s, Howard Roark and John Gage.
Wow. I thank you for enlightening me in this, Justin. You may have heard me refer to myself as a "Polyanna" and I am afraid this is true. For a pretty worldly guy I tend to believe anything good I hear about folks. Somewhere along the line I was told the Rockefellers were old-school Republicans back in the day when they were a party that cared about people. Generous philanthropists, good governance, etc. Ah, well. Better to have a bubble burst than walk around woefully misinformed. Atlas has indeed shrugged.
Yes, Atlas has indeed shrugged. My son accuses me of Ted talks but I can’t help it. I am the product of a father who was a University of Chicago, PhD, Political Science professor, speech writer and political operative and I was home schooled in the stuff. In my career as a chef I catered in the Mansions, Estates, Beach Homes and Ranches of the upper crust (those who don’t want attention). Unlike the Hollywood and movie star crowd I have also experienced. It is often a show at that level but you are still the help no matter how much your included or how well your compensated. It was all a great experience though and it gave me freedom and opportunity to do my very best. Thanks for being a friend.
The English aristocracy are known for never buying their own furniture. It’s all inherited. It’s a term of some derision about the nouveau upstarts to say, “They had to buy their furniture!”
Of course, many of the so-called aristocracy were newly minted industrialists about two centuries ago. Or married into it. Still, a lot can happen in two centuries.
Hey there, Jonathan. Living in Pittsburgh, I think of the mega-industrialist Andrew Carnegie. Never has a man given so much; magnificent music halls, endowed libraries, etc. The list is endless. And at the same time he had no problem calling out Pinkerton goons to bust the heads of unionists in his steel mills. The English aristocracy... I think I'd rather buy my own furniture than have those genes. All that inbreeding of arranged Royal Houses has produced some butt-ugly offspring.
Carnegie libraries are a wonder. I’m always pleased to see one.
I have assiduously steered clear of the English aristocracy except for one summer of my life when I worked for a very high-end catering company in the UK. Great job for a 19-year-old - and I witnessed some fascinating behaviour. I also drank a vast amount of champagne because part of my duties was to chill and open the bottles at the country weddings and all-night balls that we did every weekend. As a long hair, I was not supposed to be seen and so was kept in the back! Anyway, I took my responsibilities seriously and would sample every single bottle before sending it out. At the end of the summer, I had enough saved up to come to America - and an abiding love of champagne.
As the English would say, "Well played, Jonathan!" I'm sure you were discreet when you sampled. And just curious... what champagne do you favor these days? I don't know that I've ever tasted anything too fancy, I'm sure I'd remember if I did. Korbel when slumming it. Veuve Clicquot will also suffice. Of course, Moët. I hope you don't find my palate too pedestrian. Tasting the good stuff with the fancy folks at such a young age probably ruined you.
Then there is this. In my youth, living in LA for a couple years, my buddy Geno and I would buy a bottle, (or two,) of Asti Spumante. Nasty Asti we called it. But at $2 a pop, a bargain! We'd buy general seating in the nosebleed section of the Hollywood Bowl, (I think maybe $5?), and listen to the LA Symphony. Great memories! Classical music with a fine orchestra under the stars on a warm summer's eve. Could not improve on it at any price!
You may be surprised but what I really wanted to drink when I got to America was Cold Duck. And this was long before I knew of the Eddie Harris song. I’ve moved on.
Actually, I am not fussy about champagne. Several obvious Californian brands will do fine and our local shop on Whidbey Island usually has some affordable French sparklers, although not official French champagne at my price point. I have no idea what I was pouring back in the summer of 1972. I was only in charge of my own ruination which has continued at a satisfactory rate ever since.
many years ago I met one of my dance students' father, a fairly prominent US banker. however, during a shared dinner (yes, he paid) we had a surprisingly enlightening conversation and in the end I realised that to see and accept nuance (and style) is one of humanity's better capabilities. still very thankful having had that experience.
Having been the chef to many such events, often repeats at the same palace, you are generally, the hired help, despite the kindness and generosity shown.
Thank you for the playlist suggestion for the day, Stan Getz bossa novas - perfect, although I expect I’ll roam beyond Stan Getz.
Long ago, when a teenager - late 1960s, I had a very good friend at my ridiculous English boarding school, the kind they confusingly call “public,” who was from some very upper crust and wealthy Ecuadorean family. Of course, we lost touch after we were released from our sentences, but I always wonder what happened to him. I thought perhaps his family might be the victim of Ecuadorean politics, so it’s good to know that there are some surviving aristocrats. Perhaps you met him? His name is Eduardo. (Seriously, I really doubt that this likely!)
His surname is lost in the mists of time. This is ironic because generally at that school everyone was called by their surname. The time we are talking of was 1968-69 if my fritzy brain is working. He only lasted a year there if I remember. Must have been ghastly cold for him. The school was Stonyhurst, a Jesuit institution, in the north of England. His father was a big banker, maybe finance minister of Ecuador at sometime. If you husband were to ask around - or actually knows someone if such vague description, that would be fabulous. But I wouldn’t wish to impose.
"not wholly independent of each other perhaps, but almost. ".....and becoming even more so, if not completely divorced from each other, notwithstanding the rare exception to the rule.
Whoa, Su, don't hold back.
When we played for the "upper classes," there are no aristocrats in the US, she was Miss Beverly Spaulding. When we played in the joints, she was Bunny Starr. The food was better at the uppers, the audience was better in the joints. For the uppers we were expected to play the "hits," in the joints it was mostly originals, with titles like: Mankind I Love You, But Sometimes You Act So Strange. Big Business Sitting in the Wings, oh mister, you got a fine shoe shine, but you want so much sugar for just one dime. (the record company execs that came around weren't so sure that that those would be hits.) "Can't you do something like Ricki Lee Jones?" Instead we'd play Brilliant Corners: Alto, Bass, and Drums.
You summed it up beautifully, Su. The difference between those that grow up in the responsibility of their privilege, and those that assume it. The old money folks often work to understate their circumstances, favoring no ostentation. The new money folks have gaudy stone lions at the entrance to their tasteless mansions. It's a matter of taste. One is born to it. The other pretends to it. And never the twain shall meet.
Alki, responsibility of their priviledge? My friend you are showing our age. That once imagined benevolence is clearly being proven to be imagined. Regardless of place in class structure the defining factor is humanity, commitment to decency and fairness to others. I will claim an up close and personal observation as having been the chef for and to many people and families of stature. Money always makes a difference but not necessarily the difference.
You are, of course, accurate in what you write, Justin. Benevolence doesn't always accompany fortune. I'm thinking more of the old Republican guard who actually cared about people. I'm told the Rockefellers did a lot for the commoners in philanthropy and governance. Certainly not today's MAGA dickheads. Whereas a lot of self-made new money has an attitude of "Go get your own. I worked hard for this money, you get nothing." Understandable, if not very compassionate. One very wealthy Trumper I knew along the way said something to the effect of, "you liberal artists... if you ever have money you'll see how fast you become a Republican." To which I replied, Abe Lincoln was a Republican. Ultimately, it's dangerous to speak in absolutes. Generous caring people exist everywhere, as do tacky, stingy wienies.
Alki, I hate to say it but I’ve got to say it: Nelson Rockefeller, Attica , the slaughter. Archie Shepp…. Attica Blues. The father ie Standard Oil, David, phony conservation for tax right offs, six heart transplants to live to 90, afraid of the hereafter perhaps. Robber Barons all. Rockefeller Center an edifice for the little people to honor them, like Ayn Rand’s hero’s, Howard Roark and John Gage.
Wow. I thank you for enlightening me in this, Justin. You may have heard me refer to myself as a "Polyanna" and I am afraid this is true. For a pretty worldly guy I tend to believe anything good I hear about folks. Somewhere along the line I was told the Rockefellers were old-school Republicans back in the day when they were a party that cared about people. Generous philanthropists, good governance, etc. Ah, well. Better to have a bubble burst than walk around woefully misinformed. Atlas has indeed shrugged.
Yes, Atlas has indeed shrugged. My son accuses me of Ted talks but I can’t help it. I am the product of a father who was a University of Chicago, PhD, Political Science professor, speech writer and political operative and I was home schooled in the stuff. In my career as a chef I catered in the Mansions, Estates, Beach Homes and Ranches of the upper crust (those who don’t want attention). Unlike the Hollywood and movie star crowd I have also experienced. It is often a show at that level but you are still the help no matter how much your included or how well your compensated. It was all a great experience though and it gave me freedom and opportunity to do my very best. Thanks for being a friend.
Mingus wrote a tune called "Remember Rockefeller at Attica."
Based on my recent experiences, there's no more old money and its corresponding values. It's all new money now, and no taste.
The English aristocracy are known for never buying their own furniture. It’s all inherited. It’s a term of some derision about the nouveau upstarts to say, “They had to buy their furniture!”
Of course, many of the so-called aristocracy were newly minted industrialists about two centuries ago. Or married into it. Still, a lot can happen in two centuries.
Hey there, Jonathan. Living in Pittsburgh, I think of the mega-industrialist Andrew Carnegie. Never has a man given so much; magnificent music halls, endowed libraries, etc. The list is endless. And at the same time he had no problem calling out Pinkerton goons to bust the heads of unionists in his steel mills. The English aristocracy... I think I'd rather buy my own furniture than have those genes. All that inbreeding of arranged Royal Houses has produced some butt-ugly offspring.
Carnegie libraries are a wonder. I’m always pleased to see one.
I have assiduously steered clear of the English aristocracy except for one summer of my life when I worked for a very high-end catering company in the UK. Great job for a 19-year-old - and I witnessed some fascinating behaviour. I also drank a vast amount of champagne because part of my duties was to chill and open the bottles at the country weddings and all-night balls that we did every weekend. As a long hair, I was not supposed to be seen and so was kept in the back! Anyway, I took my responsibilities seriously and would sample every single bottle before sending it out. At the end of the summer, I had enough saved up to come to America - and an abiding love of champagne.
As the English would say, "Well played, Jonathan!" I'm sure you were discreet when you sampled. And just curious... what champagne do you favor these days? I don't know that I've ever tasted anything too fancy, I'm sure I'd remember if I did. Korbel when slumming it. Veuve Clicquot will also suffice. Of course, Moët. I hope you don't find my palate too pedestrian. Tasting the good stuff with the fancy folks at such a young age probably ruined you.
Then there is this. In my youth, living in LA for a couple years, my buddy Geno and I would buy a bottle, (or two,) of Asti Spumante. Nasty Asti we called it. But at $2 a pop, a bargain! We'd buy general seating in the nosebleed section of the Hollywood Bowl, (I think maybe $5?), and listen to the LA Symphony. Great memories! Classical music with a fine orchestra under the stars on a warm summer's eve. Could not improve on it at any price!
You may be surprised but what I really wanted to drink when I got to America was Cold Duck. And this was long before I knew of the Eddie Harris song. I’ve moved on.
Actually, I am not fussy about champagne. Several obvious Californian brands will do fine and our local shop on Whidbey Island usually has some affordable French sparklers, although not official French champagne at my price point. I have no idea what I was pouring back in the summer of 1972. I was only in charge of my own ruination which has continued at a satisfactory rate ever since.
many years ago I met one of my dance students' father, a fairly prominent US banker. however, during a shared dinner (yes, he paid) we had a surprisingly enlightening conversation and in the end I realised that to see and accept nuance (and style) is one of humanity's better capabilities. still very thankful having had that experience.
Thankfully there are still some exceptions to the rule. But only in the older generations.
Having been the chef to many such events, often repeats at the same palace, you are generally, the hired help, despite the kindness and generosity shown.
Thank you for the playlist suggestion for the day, Stan Getz bossa novas - perfect, although I expect I’ll roam beyond Stan Getz.
Long ago, when a teenager - late 1960s, I had a very good friend at my ridiculous English boarding school, the kind they confusingly call “public,” who was from some very upper crust and wealthy Ecuadorean family. Of course, we lost touch after we were released from our sentences, but I always wonder what happened to him. I thought perhaps his family might be the victim of Ecuadorean politics, so it’s good to know that there are some surviving aristocrats. Perhaps you met him? His name is Eduardo. (Seriously, I really doubt that this likely!)
What's his last name? My husband knows everyone!
His surname is lost in the mists of time. This is ironic because generally at that school everyone was called by their surname. The time we are talking of was 1968-69 if my fritzy brain is working. He only lasted a year there if I remember. Must have been ghastly cold for him. The school was Stonyhurst, a Jesuit institution, in the north of England. His father was a big banker, maybe finance minister of Ecuador at sometime. If you husband were to ask around - or actually knows someone if such vague description, that would be fabulous. But I wouldn’t wish to impose.
Interesting observations on money and class — two very different things, of course, not wholly independent of each other perhaps, but almost.
The intersection of music (or art generally) and social dynamics seems always to have something to teach us, if we think about it. Thanks, as always.
"not wholly independent of each other perhaps, but almost. ".....and becoming even more so, if not completely divorced from each other, notwithstanding the rare exception to the rule.
Great story! Thanks, Su!